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Ardi41 wrote:the fact that there is a lot of wrong stuff written proves the whole bible wrong cause it is the word of god and god doesn't make any mistakes

The Bible isn't the word of God. It's a selection of short stories written by various people throughout history, so naturally they would be slightly contradictory or outdated.

Ardi41 wrote:there's no need to use religion as a moral guideline .. i mean you should be able to figure these moral rules out by yourself ...i don't need any religion to tell me what to do and what not , the fact that you had to have those rules written down in a book , and you couldn't figure out by yourself that you couldn't steal and murder etc. ...

HAHA, so why is there so much theft and murder? What percentage of the population is Christian, in comparison to the percentage of criminals which are Christian? And the Bible's moral guidelines are not 'Don't steal. Don't kill'. Saying this really is ignorant. Many of the tales in the bible emphasise the requirement for virtues which most people have lost in modern society - sincerity, forgiveness, duty, love, enthusiasm, etc.To the vast majority, the Bible is not a set of rules and restrictions, but a guide to self-betterment and purity of the soul. I've read a bit of the Qur'an; same applies there.

Gregorovich wrote:

Ardi41 wrote:there's no need to use religion as a moral guideline .. i mean you should be able to figure these moral rules out by yourself ...i don't need any religion to tell me what to do and what not , the fact that you had to have those rules written down in a book , and you couldn't figure out by yourself that you couldn't steal and murder etc. ...

HAHA, so why is there so much theft and murder? What percentage of the population is Christian, in comparison to the percentage of criminals which are Christian? And the Bible's moral guidelines are not 'Don't steal. Don't kill'. Saying this really is ignorant. Many of the tales in the bible emphasise the requirement for virtues which most people have lost in modern society - sincerity, forgiveness, duty, love, enthusiasm, etc.To the vast majority, the Bible is not a set of rules and restrictions, but a guide to self-betterment and purity of the soul. I've read a bit of the Qur'an; same applies there.

i was talking about myself ... i'm not responsible for murder and theft ... i said , that I don't need religions to tell me what to do ... if some people are too dumb to live their lifes after a certain moral codex , it is not my fault ... and you don't need some higher power to tell you those moral rules , if you have a little bit of common sense you should be able to figure them out by yourself ...

The only people that really piss me off are hardcore Christians and all that. Living their life entirely based on a story book is just stupid, and pushing it onto others is even worse, or saying that we're bad people for not following it. Hardcore atheists are pretty crazy too, but at least they sort of have a reason to fight their beliefs, religion has held back the human race a lot in the science world and it creates a lot of unrest in the world.

It annoys me when there's the Atheists that act like religion is total bs though...most religious people I know aren't too over the top. They take the positives and the sense from the bible and treat others better because of it, live their life better, but they ignore the stupid shit.

Ardi41 wrote:

Gregorovich wrote:

Ardi41 wrote:there's no need to use religion as a moral guideline .. i mean you should be able to figure these moral rules out by yourself ...i don't need any religion to tell me what to do and what not , the fact that you had to have those rules written down in a book , and you couldn't figure out by yourself that you couldn't steal and murder etc. ...

HAHA, so why is there so much theft and murder? What percentage of the population is Christian, in comparison to the percentage of criminals which are Christian? And the Bible's moral guidelines are not 'Don't steal. Don't kill'. Saying this really is ignorant. Many of the tales in the bible emphasise the requirement for virtues which most people have lost in modern society - sincerity, forgiveness, duty, love, enthusiasm, etc.To the vast majority, the Bible is not a set of rules and restrictions, but a guide to self-betterment and purity of the soul. I've read a bit of the Qur'an; same applies there.

i was talking about myself ... i'm not responsible for murder and theft ... i said , that I don't need religions to tell me what to do ... if some people are too dumb to live their lifes after a certain moral codex , it is not my fault ... and you don't need some higher power to tell you those moral rules , if you have a little bit of common sense you should be able to figure them out by yourself ...

99% of the world's populations who are not practising theists do not abide by the all moral virtues outlined in religious texts. I'm sorry, but I hardly think you're a saint-like figure. Many use religion to better themselves. You're effectively saying you don't need self-betterment because you''re perfect already.

Gregorovich wrote:

Ardi41 wrote:

Gregorovich wrote:

Ardi41 wrote:there's no need to use religion as a moral guideline .. i mean you should be able to figure these moral rules out by yourself ...i don't need any religion to tell me what to do and what not , the fact that you had to have those rules written down in a book , and you couldn't figure out by yourself that you couldn't steal and murder etc. ...

HAHA, so why is there so much theft and murder? What percentage of the population is Christian, in comparison to the percentage of criminals which are Christian? And the Bible's moral guidelines are not 'Don't steal. Don't kill'. Saying this really is ignorant. Many of the tales in the bible emphasise the requirement for virtues which most people have lost in modern society - sincerity, forgiveness, duty, love, enthusiasm, etc.To the vast majority, the Bible is not a set of rules and restrictions, but a guide to self-betterment and purity of the soul. I've read a bit of the Qur'an; same applies there.

i was talking about myself ... i'm not responsible for murder and theft ... i said , that I don't need religions to tell me what to do ... if some people are too dumb to live their lifes after a certain moral codex , it is not my fault ... and you don't need some higher power to tell you those moral rules , if you have a little bit of common sense you should be able to figure them out by yourself ...

99% of the world's populations who are not practising theists do not abide by the all moral virtues outlined in religious texts. I'm sorry, but I hardly think you're a saint-like figure. Many use religion to better themselves. You're effectively saying you don't need self-betterment because you''re perfect already.

seriously .. why are you interpretating all this crap out of what i write ^^ ... i never said i was a saint-like figure and i did not say i am perfect ... the only thing i said , was that i don't need religion to tell me to get better or to tell me to follow certain rules , cause these are things one should be able to do by his own ... i'm repeating myself .. i was talking about me , other people can do this the way they want to do ... if they need someone else to tell them to follow certain moral rules , it's their decision ..

Ardi41 wrote:i never said i was a saint-like figure and i did not say i am perfect ... the only thing i said , was that i don't need religion to tell me to get better or to tell me to follow certain rules , cause these are things one should be able to do by his own ... i'm repeating myself .. i was talking about me

Then it's your personal choice that you don't want to better yourself in those ways. But you're not perfect. So don't criticise theists for wanting to to make themselves better people, because, most of the time, they're better people than Atheists will ever be. And they're FAR more tolerant than Atheists.

Ardi41 wrote:other people can do this the way they want to do ... if they need someone else to tell them to follow certain moral rules , it's their decision ..

So you're refuting your argument you said a few posts ago that theists are stupid for following flawed texts?

Gregorovich wrote: theists for wanting to to make themselves better people, because, most of the time, they're better people than Atheists will ever be. And they're FAR more tolerant than Atheists.

Sorry but that's a really silly thing to say.

Everyone is misguided by the extremists you see on either side in the media. These are not a good representation of the majority of theists or atheists at all. I can't see how you could even think of saying theists are somehow better people and more tolerant than people that don't believe in God.

Gregorovich wrote: Then it's your personal choice that you don't want to better yourself in those ways. But you're not perfect. So don't criticise theists for wanting to to make themselves better people, because, most of the time, they're better people than Atheists will ever be. And they're FAR more tolerant than Atheists.

i'm not criticising them i'm just saying that i personally don't think it's right for me to live my life after moral rules that are written in some book ... every human being should be able to figure those rules out for themselves

Gregorovich wrote:

Ardi41 wrote:other people can do this the way they want to do ... if they need someone else to tell them to follow certain moral rules , it's their decision ..

So you're refuting your argument you said a few posts ago that theists are stupid for following flawed texts?

nope i just said that i think it's dumb to follow the bible ... still they have the right to do believe whatever they want ? seriously dude .. what are you trying to achieve by interpretating all this bullshit out of what i write ??
to sum it all up ( and yes i'm repeating myself again )
i personally think it's dumb to believe in the things written in the bible , but that does not mean i don't support them being able in believing what they want .. everybody is allowed to believe in whatever the heck they want to believe in and everyone has the right to be wrong .. and i stand up for these rights ..

and btw. stop talking about tolerance while you don't seem to tolerate my personal thoughts ...

and i'm not even trying to argue here .. i was just expressing my opinion ... (yeah tolerance)

2712 wrote:

and this is why atheists are (generally) assholes.
why does it matter to you if her beliefs don't make any sense? thats your opinion. it makes you no better than someone in the Westboro Babtist Church saying that God hates Fags.

This.

Boni Boy Blue wrote:I've got to admit, I'm an atheist but I don't go around telling everyone. Religion or faith is a life choice, why should I tell people how to live their life. I am always perfectly honest, I don't like most religions but I wouldn't have a go at someone for being part of it because that is what they believe, some of my best friends are religious and not once have we had an argument about the subject.

Because of this, I cannot endorse what you are doing.

This as well!

SickofEveryone wrote:

2712 wrote:

and this is why atheists are (generally) assholes.
why does it matter to you if her beliefs don't make any sense? thats your opinion. it makes you no better than someone in the Westboro Babtist Church saying that God hates Fags.

This.

Come on guys, you are seriously misguided...you realise what you know as "most atheists" is pretty much a lie made up by the media? Just like how people think the majority of Christians are nutjobs that follow every single passage of the bible and thank God for every single thing that happens to them...that is not what most of them are like.

Atheists are not "generally assholes" dude, at all...nearly all my friends/acquiantances are atheists. They just don't believe in God, they don't follow a religion...that doesn't make them an asshole at all man. They're some of the nicest people ever. All of them support all types of people, they do their best to help everyone out. Talk of religion and God is just not a part of their lives at all, and they're no worse off personality wise because of that.

The majority of atheists don't even talk about God or religion, let alone criticise the beliefs of theists. They just don't give a fuck about it enough to even talk about it.

Tyler. wrote:

SickofEveryone wrote:

2712 wrote:

and this is why atheists are (generally) assholes.
why does it matter to you if her beliefs don't make any sense? thats your opinion. it makes you no better than someone in the Westboro Babtist Church saying that God hates Fags.

This.

Come on guys, you are seriously misguided...you realise what you know as "most atheists" is pretty much a lie made up by the media? Just like how people think the majority of Christians are nutjobs that follow every single passage of the bible and thank God for every single thing that happens to them...that is not what most of them are like.

Atheists are not "generally assholes" dude, at all...nearly all my friends/acquiantances are atheists. They just don't believe in God, they don't follow a religion...that doesn't make them an asshole at all man. They're some of the nicest people ever. All of them support all types of people, they do their best to help everyone out. Talk of religion and God is just not a part of their lives at all, and they're no worse off personality wise because of that.

The majority of atheists don't even talk about God or religion, let alone criticise the beliefs of theists. They just don't give a fuck about it enough to even talk about it.

A lot of people are asshole, atheists or not, but a lot of atheists think they are better than Christians because they have no God to worry about so they have no Heaven so they have no reason to do good, because they think they are their own God even though they never died and came back to life or they never created the earth, sun and everyone...But I think this debate needs to end.

Dude seriously, come to Europe.

My motto is "live and let live",I'm an atheist, but I respect everyone's beliefs as long as they respect mine( or the lack of them).
To me arguing about religion is as stupid as arguing about football, you support one team and I support another one, we can still be friends.
I've friends who believe in God, friends who don't and friends who don't give a shit about religion but believe in something, and hey we get along pretty well.
and sickofeveryone, that's the spudidest thing I've seen on tns in a while, just because we don't believe in god doen't mean we don't know what wrong and what's right, we've morals too you know.

Druska wrote: My motto is "live and let live",I'm an atheist, but I respect everyone's beliefs as long as they respect mine( or the lack of them).

that sums it all up ... i think we should end this right here .

I'm an atheist, and I try my best to respect others' beliefs. I just can't understand how they can believe. But I respect them, that's all I know.

SickofEveryone wrote: A lot of people are asshole, atheists or not, but a lot of atheists think they are better than Christians because they have no God to worry about so they have no Heaven so they have no reason to do good, because they think they are their own God even though they never died and came back to life or they never created the earth, sun and everyone...But I think this debate needs to end.

This is true, but this is where you're getting into the extremists, not "a lot of". These are the people that are the opposite to the stupid nutjob religious people that push their beliefs on everyone, and are just as bad as them...but the truth is they are in the complete minority. It's basically the same for both sides, 95% "normal" people, 5% morons. A very very small percentage of atheists are actually assholes. It's just unfortunate that what's shoved down our throat are these extremists, it makes both sides look bad when neither are.

Ardi41 wrote:

Druska wrote: My motto is "live and let live",I'm an atheist, but I respect everyone's beliefs as long as they respect mine( or the lack of them).

that sums it all up ... i think we should end this right here .

^Indeed. Same here.

I never used to really think about God or any of it until I had an experience(s) that changed the way I looked at things and I indeed realized that I have been wrong, I truly believe that without God my life would have ended a long time ago.

Druska wrote: and sickofeveryone, that's the spudidest thing I've seen on tns in a while, just because we don't believe in god doen't mean we don't know what wrong and what's right, we've morals too you know.

Haha, I know you do, I see everyone equal, but what I meant is that since you believe in no God and was givin the choice to do the right thing or the wrong it is easier for you to do the wrong, because their is no God, so there must be no Hell to go to or Heaven. But for a Christian they would say well what would Jesus do, and he would do the right thing so we try to follow him the best we can, even though not all of us do. But I think religion doesn't, it you are nice to me I shall be to. And we should respect everyone's belief and not try to change theirs.

Ardi41 wrote:nope i just said that i think it's dumb to follow the bible ...

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Everybody who follows the bible for spiritual and moral reasons does so because they want to make themselves better people. And this is dumb? I'm in the same boat as you - I don't follow the bible because I choose not to - but I know following religious/moral guidelines in order to become a better person is a good thing to do. This doesn't mean I judge people who do follow the bible. They are better people and I acknowledge that.

Tyler. wrote:Everyone is misguided by the extremists you see on either side in the media. These are not a good representation of the majority of theists or atheists at all. I can't see how you could even think of saying theists are somehow better people and more tolerant than people that don't believe in God.

Funny, because the people I've met in both community churches I used to go to, who followed the bible for self-betterment, displayed all the virtues they try and obtain. Nothing I'm saying is coming from the media; I don't listen to the rubbish I read about religion because it's almost impossible not to opinionate.

SickofEveryone wrote:

Druska wrote: and sickofeveryone, that's the spudidest thing I've seen on tns in a while, just because we don't believe in god doen't mean we don't know what wrong and what's right, we've morals too you know.

Haha, I know you do, I see everyone equal, but what I meant is that since you believe in no God and was givin the choice to do the right thing or the wrong it is easier for you to do the wrong, because their is no God, so there must be no Hell to go to or Heaven. But for a Christian they would say well what would Jesus do, and he would do the right thing so we try to follow him the best we can, even though not all of us do. But I think religion doesn't, it you are nice to me I shall be to. And we should respect everyone's belief and not try to change theirs.

I may have no God , but I stil have a family or friends who would be disappointed if I did the wrong thing, sure I don't have a heaven or Hell but I care about my people, and I don't wanna hurt them, so you see, for me doing the wrong or the right is as easy/hard as for anybody who believes in god, the difference is that you "think what would jesus do " and I think "what would my family think of me if I did that"