Deryck Plays On Stage With Avril in Toronto

[Phili]

Deryck stopped doing drugs, cleaned up a bit (well, a lot), and went a bit poppier on this album. Yep, she's terrible. Leave her alone. Sum 41's changes are influenced a bit by her, but they are not entirely her fault.

I don't see what else they could be influenced by. It seems like Deryck has just lost his backbone.

Wow, what else could they be influenced by? Well let's think. ALL THREE members of Sum 41 settling down and getting married? One of the members leaving the band, making them essentially have to start over? Losing the band's real backbone, Greig Nori? Growing up (I think some of you forget that these guys are all almost 30)? The list goes on.

You know, sometimes I think you guys just look for reasons to insult Avril. Personally I think that, being his wife and a main part of his support system, she ADDS to his backbone.

Jeremy, good point. Thank you.

[SociallyInept]

And besides, Avril's guitar is pretty much a carbon copy of Deryck's, just different stickers.

Except not at all. If we're talking about their signature guitars. Here, you can compare them side by side: http://www.fender.com/resources/priceli ... squier.pdf

And seeing as Deryck basically took control of all the writing on UH I don't think Cone and Steve settling down affected how the album turned out at all. And I'll level with you, I do take most oppotunities to blame Avril for Sum 41's decline because I hate her.

[Phili]

And besides, Avril's guitar is pretty much a carbon copy of Deryck's, just different stickers.

Except not at all. If we're talking about their signature guitars. Here, you can compare them side by side: http://www.fender.com/resources/priceli ... squier.pdf

They're talking about the guitar that Deryck played onstage.

And about blaming Avril for everything because you hate her... Grow up and get over it. You are not 10 years old. You are about to become an adult and you are childishly blaming someone else for Sum 41's changes because you don't like them? My 8-year-old cousin does that.

And considering that bit about the whole band settling down was only a small part of my post, I think you know that I'm at least partially right.

[SociallyInept]

And besides, Avril's guitar is pretty much a carbon copy of Deryck's, just different stickers.

Except not at all. If we're talking about their signature guitars. Here, you can compare them side by side: http://www.fender.com/resources/priceli ... squier.pdf

They're talking about the guitar that Deryck played onstage.

And about blaming Avril for everything because you hate her... Grow up and get over it. You are not 10 years old. You are about to become an adult and you are childishly blaming someone else for Sum 41's changes because you don't like them? My 8-year-old cousin does that.

And considering that bit about the whole band settling down was only a small part of my post, I think you know that I'm at least partially right.

That wasn't the guitar he was playing? I didn't see the guitar that much in the version I watched, only the pink and black checkered strap. And yeah, you are right, all those things you listed are factors that changed their sound but I think Avril is the reason for how UH ended up sounding. I mean, they could've changed back to the DTLI sound or the HHOP sound or something completely different but they went for something poppy which is I think Avril's fault.

Btw, your 8-year-old cousin sounds win.

[Phili]

They went for something poppier because:
1. It's more mainstream, and they needed something that could push them forward.
2. The people who REALLY appreciated the darker side of their music were all gone.
3. None of them liked Chuck that much and they associated that with dark.
4. Deryck is at a happier and more stable place in his life. Happy tends to lead to slightly poppier.

It's not like Avril walked into the studio and said "Hey, make this poppier." The choices THEY MADE have nothing to do with her.

My 8-year-old cousin is 9 years younger than you and thinks you're being immature.

[Hentaiman]

Well its not really on the subject but it was mentioned here... Whats up with Jerry Finn? It says he died in Wikipedia and also that Tom Delonge and AFI confirmed it and were sorry for it or something.
Is this for real? cuz i guess not if it wasn't true when posted here on TNS. weird.

[V]

Well its not really on the subject but it was mentioned here... Whats up with Jerry Finn? It says he died in Wikipedia and also that Tom Delonge and AFI confirmed it and were sorry for it or something.
Is this for real? cuz i guess not if it wasn't true when posted here on TNS. weird.

All updates are posted here: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... 99/0/64/0/

But since last week there haven't been any news.

[Open Your Eyes]

Lmao. SociallyInept, your points are so invalid. It's rather hilarious.

[SociallyInept]

They went for something poppier because:
1. It's more mainstream, and they needed something that could push them forward.

Agreed, but if that's true, it's a total sellout move

2. The people who REALLY appreciated the darker side of their music were all gone.

Lots of fans, alot of people on this board, appreciated their darker music. Which really wasn't all dark, it was just heavier. Do the fans opinions not matter what so ever?

3. None of them liked Chuck that much and they associated that with dark.

Deryck is the only one who said he didn't love Chuck. And even he said there were good aspects to it, like Pieces and such.

4. Deryck is at a happier and more stable place in his life. Happy tends to lead to slightly poppier.

So Deryck wasn't happy when they recorded HHOP or DTLI? They could've done something similar like that. HHOP was a happy feeling album yet it wasn't really poppy.

Its not like Avril was the first woman in Deryck's life, he's dated other girls, none of which caused him to change his music.

[d4rkst4r]

They went for something poppier because:
1. It's more mainstream, and they needed something that could push them forward.
2. The people who REALLY appreciated the darker side of their music were all gone.
3. None of them liked Chuck that much and they associated that with dark.
4. Deryck is at a happier and more stable place in his life. Happy tends to lead to slightly poppier.

It's not like Avril walked into the studio and said "Hey, make this poppier." The choices THEY MADE have nothing to do with her.

My 8-year-old cousin is 9 years younger than you and thinks you're being immature.

I know I'm coming in half way through this but, let's not rip on sociallyinept.

1. And did it push them forward? TBH, I would have actually liked the new Sum 41 more if it actually did push them forward. Mainstream has it's pros and cons, but "attempting" wasn't good for Sum 41.

2. No, they were never gone. Where exactly are you getting this from??? I mean today, yeah their gone but before they made this record, they were still here. If you take away the heavier music, the fans are obviously are going to move on.

3. I wouldn't say they disliked Chuck. I think it's a pointless record. If I had to single out a Sum 41 record, I would single out Chuck. That doesn't mean it's bad, it's just a weird album they chose to do. And if dave chose to leave Sum 41 before Chuck came out, it's obviously the album would have been totally different. Half the songs on their wouldn't be there. They still enjoy playing We're All To Blame and Pieces still to this day live, and in fact I wish they would play more songs from that album. So to say all Chuck fans are gone, is not an accurate speculation.

4. It could, but I doubt there's any real solid evidence that shows happy leads to poppier albums. Yeah, deryck seems to be happy with his life now, but in Sum 41 land, I think he's a little shaken up that Underclass Hero didn't go as well as he planned.

great discussion we got going.

[Gibsum 41]

They went for something poppier because:
1. It's more mainstream, and they needed something that could push them forward.

Agreed, but if that's true, it's a total sellout move

Yea, that's kinda true but I wouldn't blame it on Sum. Sometimes the labels push bands to the extent of actually threatening bands about dropping them from the label. Remember the record labels are a business so naturally they won't care about anything but making money. I know that a lot of people thought Sum 41 was going to end when Dave left the band so maybe the labels thought Sum would lose a lot of fans and not sell very well, thus pushing them to make an album that sells. I don't know, I just find this possible.

[Jeremy Kill]

Deryck's kind of got a skewed perception of Sum 41's music from the past two albums, Underclass Hero and Chuck.

I remember when Ashley (Asho_Dirtypoo) was talking to Deryck after a show during the Chuck era and how she commented that the songs were quite slow. Deryck said something along the lines of, "But this is the heaviest album we wrote."

Fast-forward to Underclass Hero era and we have happier, upbeat songs that aren't heavy at all.

It seems that Deryck associates happy songs with less guitar riffs, and darker, slower songs with heavy guitar riffs. At least that's a pattern I see.

As for Sum 41 trying to recapture their former glory, it's pretty obvious they were. I'm sure everyone saw the connection between the Underclass Hero video and Fat Lip video as well as the songs themselves shared the same spirit and theme of rebellion.

And to add to that, Deryck makes a video telling fans to vote for With Me on TRL and get it to #1? I mean, it's not as desperate as when Kurt Cobain requested his own single, Love Buzz, two hours after its release on college radio, but you can definately sense an attempt to get back on the radar.

[Open Your Eyes]

Wasn't meaning to be disrespectful to SociallyInept if it came across that way, sorry

There's no way that Deryck himself decided that he wanted to record a video asking Sum fans to get "With Me" to #1. That was all Nettwerk there. I don't know if a lot of people really understand the management aspect of Sum 41, but Nettwerk is a very unique management company. They did do a horrible job during the Underclass Hero era, but Nettwerk probably assumed that "With Me" was the single with the most potential (kind of like "Pieces"). Deryck's going to do what Nettwerk tells him to do because Nettwerk is smart.

"Chuck" is actually one of my favorite albums with the exception of "Slipping Away". I dig the guitar solo's.

Also, it's not really fair to compare Avril to Deryck's "other girls". Read the body language between paparazzi pictures and you'll understand.

[Phili]

Dude. My #2, the one where I talked about people appreciating heavy music, I was referring to the obvious change of Dave and Greig being gone. I wasn't suggesting that the fans' opinions are unimportant.

And Deryck is clearly the happiest he's been in a very long time, maybe ever. Like Adam said, Avril isn't the same situation as the other girls he's dated. His mood following and during his "relationship" with Paris Hilton is clearly reflected in the lyrics in "Chuck." But since he quite obviously didn't give 2 shits about the girl, it didn't really affect anything else. It's COMPLETELY unfair to compare Deryck's marriage to his previous relationships.

I think Ari Martin is a horrible influence on the band. He's their manager now and look what's happened. The band is less popular than they have ever been, Deryck suddenly started flipping through the Sum 41 songbook for inspiration, and the fans are fussing more than ever. Greig cleary stood between Sum 41 and Nettwerk & Island and made sure they did things that worked for them. Because he knew what worked for them, he had watched them grow for like 8 years.

I think Ari is far more to blame for any problems than Avril is. As you said, SociallyInept, Deryck has been with other women before and they've had no influence on the music. The change is entirely to do with Deryck's mood and bad management and a fear of slipping off the radar. Which they pretty much accomplished. Argh.

[SociallyInept]

I know I'm coming in half way through this but, let's not rip on sociallyinept.

Thank you

I think Ari is far more to blame for any problems than Avril is. As you said, SociallyInept, Deryck has been with other women before and they've had no influence on the music. The change is entirely to do with Deryck's mood and bad management and a fear of slipping off the radar. Which they pretty much accomplished. Argh.

Fair enough. But when did this Ari guy come into play? During the recording of Underclass Hero? Because if that's the case, he couldn't have had much input on the music.

[Jeremy Kill]

There's no way that Deryck himself decided that he wanted to record a video asking Sum fans to get "With Me" to #1. That was all Nettwerk there. I don't know if a lot of people really understand the management aspect of Sum 41, but Nettwerk is a very unique management company. They did do a horrible job during the Underclass Hero era, but Nettwerk probably assumed that "With Me" was the single with the most potential (kind of like "Pieces"). Deryck's going to do what Nettwerk tells him to do because Nettwerk is smart.

Okay, but I getting to #1 on TRL solely on votes would be tough. I mean, some people probably only voted because Deryck said, "There's a lot of bad music out there and it'd be nice to have something good." And not because they genuinely liked the song.

And TRL doesn't just count votes, but things such as radio plays and downloads too, which I don't think With Me wasn't getting a lot of. I once tried to request With Me on this one station that plays Sum 41 (mainly Fat Lip and Fat Lip only. Underclass Hero as well before Deryck hurt himself) and they never played it. I must've sent in like 50 requests.

[Phili]

I think Ari is far more to blame for any problems than Avril is. As you said, SociallyInept, Deryck has been with other women before and they've had no influence on the music. The change is entirely to do with Deryck's mood and bad management and a fear of slipping off the radar. Which they pretty much accomplished. Argh.

Fair enough. But when did this Ari guy come into play? During the recording of Underclass Hero? Because if that's the case, he couldn't have had much input on the music.

Ari Martin was Sum 41's new manager before Deryck started writing Underclass Hero.

[SociallyInept]

I think Ari is far more to blame for any problems than Avril is. As you said, SociallyInept, Deryck has been with other women before and they've had no influence on the music. The change is entirely to do with Deryck's mood and bad management and a fear of slipping off the radar. Which they pretty much accomplished. Argh.

Fair enough. But when did this Ari guy come into play? During the recording of Underclass Hero? Because if that's the case, he couldn't have had much input on the music.

Ari Martin was Sum 41's new manager before Deryck started writing Underclass Hero.

Really? When exactly?

[Phili]

I believe he became their co-manager in 2005. It seems that he was intimidated by Greig and convinced the band to fire him or caused conflict between them because almost as soon as he became co-manager, Greig "parted ways" with Sum 41.

[d4rkst4r]

I believe he became their co-manager in 2005. It seems that he was intimidated by Greig and convinced the band to fire him or caused conflict between them because almost as soon as he became co-manager, Greig "parted ways" with Sum 41.

I thought Greig left because Sum 41 fired everyone, their tour managers, manager, sound guys, everyone. And I've never heard of this Ari Martin.