So Long Goodbye Lyric

Asho_DirtyPoo · Post by **Asho_DirtyPoo** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:41 pm

punkrockfan182 wrote:i dont get the "before you know it your cups overflown" what does that mean?

I think none of us really know what it's mean to mean for sure.

But from what I can see, it could mean that Dave needs to be careful, and that before he knows it he'll have bit off more than he can chew.

It could also mean that none of them saw it coming, and then Dave had gone as far as he could with the band, and so he left (I wish I could explain that better? haha).

Really just using the image of a cup being filled to the brim, and then over as a symbol - for possibly one of the two things I mentioned above...possibly other things.

Phili · Post by **Phili** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:13 pm

Asho_DirtyPoo wrote:
Phili wrote:I definitely think that the "you measure no one that I've ever known" wasn't supposed to be mean... it just ended up sounding that way. Happens to Deryck a lot. I think he was trying to say that Dave's above average.
Seems odd to me that nobody would catch that and be like "dude - that doesn't mean what you wanted to say"...

Although, there have certainly been other situations in Sum lyrics that no one has caught before *shrug*

lol, Cone and Steve don't exactly study the lyrics.

Asho_DirtyPoo · Post by **Asho_DirtyPoo** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:16 pm

*lol* I was talking management. Higher ups.

Avril, even *lol*

He has to have people read over his stuff at some point.

Phili · Post by **Phili** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:18 pm

lol, their upper management probably didn't care and Avril, I think she's cool and all and I like her music, but she's not the smartest person in the world.

Asho_DirtyPoo · Post by **Asho_DirtyPoo** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:20 pm

Touche, touche haha

fergal41 · Post by **fergal41** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:35 am

I think what Deryck is trying to say with the "Matter's of Heart..." lyric is that Dave has no more love for what the band is doing and that his heart isnt in it anymore. And my interpretation of the "You Measure No one..." lyric is that Dave is unlike anyone that Deryck has ever known. As in he's unique and that's what he loves him for. I'm not one for trying to analyze what one "celebrity" says about another but you have to understand that in songwriting lyrics don't always have to be literal, even though in this song they are pretty straight-forward and easy to interpret.

Plus I remember Deryck saying that the song wasnt just about Dave around the time when the song was first played live on a radio show.

fergal41 · Post by **fergal41** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:40 am

punkrockfan182 wrote:i dont get the "before you know it your cups overflown" what does that mean?

It could mean anything like the way Dave wanted to leave the band while Chuck was being demo'd but by the time he knew for sure there was an album launch and a huge tour ahead of him

Or it could relate to the fact that he found the fame and the MTV generation treatment of the band a bit too much

Asho_DirtyPoo · Post by **Asho_DirtyPoo** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:12 am

fergal41 wrote:that in songwriting lyrics don't always have to be literal

Well if that line does mean what you interpret it as - Deryck worded it poorly, and the way he worded it means that Dave measures up to no one that Deryck has ever known. Aka, Dave measures lower than everyone else he's ever met *shrug*

That is what that statement means, however, I wouldn't doubt at all that Deryck worded it badly. He does have a tendancy to do that.

Hentaiman · Post by **Hentaiman** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:22 am

I dont see a reason why you have to interpret it like that. i mean, sure you can interpret it as a diss and as like Dave is lower than anyone Deryck ever met, but thats definitely not what Deryck meant, i'm sure he meant exactly the opposite and though saying some harsh stuff back when people gave him a hard time on the sum41.com boards and all, he always said before that it wasn't an ugly goodbye or something, and although he said he never spoke with Dave since, he never said they are like enemies now... they're not.

Asho_DirtyPoo · Post by **Asho_DirtyPoo** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:33 am

Hentaiman wrote:I dont see a reason why you have to interpret it like that. i mean, sure you can interpret it as a diss and as like Dave is lower than anyone Deryck ever met, but thats definitely not what Deryck meant, i'm sure he meant exactly the opposite and though saying some harsh stuff back when people gave him a hard time on the sum41.com boards and all, he always said before that it wasn't an ugly goodbye or something, and although he said he never spoke with Dave since, he never said they are like enemies now... they're not.

I know that, and I admitted he may not have meant that.

But his words? That's what they mean when put into sequence like that. That's all. If that isn't what he meant - it woulda been nice if he didn't word it that way.

SociallyInept · Post by **SociallyInept** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:33 am

fergal41 wrote:I think what Deryck is trying to say with the "Matter's of Heart..." lyric is that Dave has no more love for what the band is doing and that his heart isnt in it anymore. And my interpretation of the "You Measure No one..." lyric is that Dave is unlike anyone that Deryck has ever known. As in he's unique and that's what he loves him for. I'm not one for trying to analyze what one "celebrity" says about another but you have to understand that in songwriting lyrics don't always have to be literal, even though in this song they are pretty straight-forward and easy to interpret.

Plus I remember Deryck saying that the song wasnt just about Dave around the time when the song was first played live on a radio show.

Yeah that's how I took it too. I don't think Deryck would be that cold. If you hated a person that much you wouldn't be in a band with them for as long as he was.

fergal41 · Post by **fergal41** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:56 am

Asho_DirtyPoo wrote:
fergal41 wrote:that in songwriting lyrics don't always have to be literal
Well if that line does mean what you interpret it as - Deryck worded it poorly, and the way he worded it means that Dave measures up to no one that Deryck has ever known. Aka, Dave measures lower than everyone else he's ever met *shrug*

That is what that statement means, however, I wouldn't doubt at all that Deryck worded it badly. He does have a tendancy to do that.

You can't say that Deryck worded it poorly! songwriting is art, as I said before lyrics don't have to be literal. A songwriter can't commit themselves to expression through boring, straight-forward lyrics for every song they work on. It's like a painter using the same pallet of colours for his/her whole life.

And also the English language doesnt rule that if you word a sentence like that, then literally that is what it translates to.

Theres no end to the amount of situations and contexts the sentence "You measure no-one that I've ever known" can be applied to. It would be different if the line was "Dave Baksh is a lower human than everyone I've ever met" because that is the most literal way you can express yourself but that former could mean a million things, plus in literature, it doesnt just translate to the latter, as you are implying

Post by **Jeremy Kill** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:14 am

sumfan wrote:
Gunner wrote:The "Matters of Heart" definately seemed like a diss to me as well. But I always interpreted, "Yours is full of emptiness" as like "It's hard to be a punk rock band when you want to be in a metal band."

Haha, what?

Asho_DirtyPoo · Post by **Asho_DirtyPoo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:07 am

fergal41 wrote:
Asho_DirtyPoo wrote:
fergal41 wrote:that in songwriting lyrics don't always have to be literal
Well if that line does mean what you interpret it as - Deryck worded it poorly, and the way he worded it means that Dave measures up to no one that Deryck has ever known. Aka, Dave measures lower than everyone else he's ever met *shrug*

That is what that statement means, however, I wouldn't doubt at all that Deryck worded it badly. He does have a tendancy to do that.
You can't say that Deryck worded it poorly! songwriting is art, as I said before lyrics don't have to be literal. A songwriter can't commit themselves to expression through boring, straight-forward lyrics for every song they work on. It's like a painter using the same pallet of colours for his/her whole life.

And also the English language doesnt rule that if you word a sentence like that, then literally that is what it translates to.

Theres no end to the amount of situations and contexts the sentence "You measure no-one that I've ever known" can be applied to. It would be different if the line was "Dave Baksh is a lower human than everyone I've ever met" because that is the most literal way you can express yourself but that former could mean a million things, plus in literature, it doesnt just translate to the latter, as you are implying

If you want something to NOT appear like you mean it in a rude way - you would word it appropriately.

I would think in a song written about a situation like this, where there is controversy - if I were writing it, I would be careful not to word it so it could EASILY be interpretted to mean something negative.

And actually, I can, and did, and will again I'm sure, say that he worded it poorly.

It's an art - and art is meant to be interpretted by the beholder. So I can think, and say, whatever I want about it. English is a language - that which can only be bent and misinterpretted so many ways.

Not once have I said, 100% for sure, what Deryck meant in the song, and it frustrates me that you seem to think that you know 100% for sure. It's not possible for any of us to know, 100% for sure, what Deryck meant by the controversial lyrics of this song in the moment he wrote them.

Hentaiman · Post by **Hentaiman** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:44 pm

Yeah i have to agree with that. its true, except for songs of course Deryck said about what they are, like Pull the Curtain about the panic attacks and all.

but yeah, its very hard to believe it was meant to be a diss song.

Asho_DirtyPoo · Post by **Asho_DirtyPoo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:08 pm

Hentaiman wrote:Yeah i have to agree with that. its true, except for songs of course Deryck said about what they are

Even so, though...it's hard to explain what you felt at that time way after the fact 'cause we even can't understand our own feelings entirely after a period of time has passed *shrug*. Plus people lie *lol*

At any rate...it's all just opinion, once again. We all have the right to our own :)

EDIT: I didn't realize PTC was about panic attacks...probably since I didn't really listen to it a lot. I'll have to give it another listen, knowing that, and see what I think. (I have suffered from a sever anxiety disorder for 9 years now haha). Interesting.

fergal41 · Post by **fergal41** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:25 am

Asho_DirtyPoo wrote:
fergal41 wrote:
Asho_DirtyPoo wrote:
fergal41 wrote:that in songwriting lyrics don't always have to be literal
Well if that line does mean what you interpret it as - Deryck worded it poorly, and the way he worded it means that Dave measures up to no one that Deryck has ever known. Aka, Dave measures lower than everyone else he's ever met *shrug*

That is what that statement means, however, I wouldn't doubt at all that Deryck worded it badly. He does have a tendancy to do that.
You can't say that Deryck worded it poorly! songwriting is art, as I said before lyrics don't have to be literal. A songwriter can't commit themselves to expression through boring, straight-forward lyrics for every song they work on. It's like a painter using the same pallet of colours for his/her whole life.

And also the English language doesnt rule that if you word a sentence like that, then literally that is what it translates to.

Theres no end to the amount of situations and contexts the sentence "You measure no-one that I've ever known" can be applied to. It would be different if the line was "Dave Baksh is a lower human than everyone I've ever met" because that is the most literal way you can express yourself but that former could mean a million things, plus in literature, it doesnt just translate to the latter, as you are implying
If you want something to NOT appear like you mean it in a rude way - you would word it appropriately.

I would think in a song written about a situation like this, where there is controversy - if I were writing it, I would be careful not to word it so it could EASILY be interpretted to mean something negative.

And actually, I can, and did, and will again I'm sure, say that he worded it poorly.

It's an art - and art is meant to be interpretted by the beholder. So I can think, and say, whatever I want about it. English is a language - that which can only be bent and misinterpretted so many ways.

Not once have I said, 100% for sure, what Deryck meant in the song, and it frustrates me that you seem to think that you know 100% for sure. It's not possible for any of us to know, 100% for sure, what Deryck meant by the controversial lyrics of this song in the moment he wrote them.

Haha ironically, you took what I was saying literally aswell. I didnt mean you physically cant say that! I meant that Art is an open field where works are judged by opinion, saying Deryck worded it poorly is saying it as fact. Had ye said "I don't think he worded it appropriately" I wouldnt have said anything but ye basically did in yer last post.

"if I were writing it, I would be careful not to word it so it could EASILY be interpretted to mean something negative."

But that's compromising your art. You cant let something like that get in the way of something your trying to create. You have to takeinspiration as its coming to you and create the best piece of art you can

"and it frustrates me that you seem to think that you know 100% for sure"

Trust me, I don't! and I don't really care what it means either I just thnk its a great song and I was just chipping into this thread with my opinion on my thought on the lyrics

Asho_DirtyPoo · Post by **Asho_DirtyPoo** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:31 am

Ah I was going to say something but I won't 'cause I know it'll just start more fights in the board (it was a tangent, no on this specific subject).

Fair enough, though.

In my opinion - he words things like an idiot who doesn't speak English sometimes, and it annoys me. In my opinion haha

I'm A Cunt [*banned*] · Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:35 am

DO NOT CALL DERYCK WHIBLEY AN IDOT

:x

Post by **Jeremy Kill** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:39 am

sumfan wrote:DO NOT CALL DERYCK WHIBLEY AN IDOT :x

I think D-Rock is an idot!! =P