TheresNoSolution.com

Everyone who says that Tom's auto-tune performance sounds good should go and buy new piece of ears. I don't like his style of singing backing vocals but auto-tune is not the answer.

Then what is? All I'm saying is i want to hear people say "Sum 41 are good live."

And if Tom is a problem, then fix it. I see no problem in that.

EDIT: And if auto-tune is not the answer, then there is none. And if you don't like it, stop complaining about Tom's voice.

I have to agree with Simon though, who is a guy who knows lot about the technical aspect of music (seen his studies, I guess).

The auto-tune might be a solution, but it won't definetely won't be the first to use.

Singing higher, withouth the shouting would be a solution. But of course, he needs to turn his mic up than.

On the other hand, doing the backings in another way might work as well.

But like a performance or Letterman, Orange Lounge or whatever, I don't have a problem with auto-tuning.

I would shit my pants as well if Tom would sing on television like he does live right now.

lol shit my pants

Ya, that's a slap in the face! It's like "You can't sing, so your gonna be auto-tuned."

Does he not take that personally? But yeah, if it's a big performance, they need to auto-tune it. I just think, unless he's gonna change his singing style that the best solution for us, the fans, would be auto-tune.

Exactly.

So you yourself think auto-tune is good? I mean, they have not used it live in a big crowd, but the UH thing did sound good. But srsly, don't judge me cos i really like their live performance now.

I think it's good if there isn't any other solution for the way he's singing/shouting right now.

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

I didn't notice you were such a music legend, I'm sorry.

Well let me do some explaining then if you just don't get it yourself.

People who can't sing use auto-tune live. Tom obviously can sing. He hits notes, so why use auto-tune? To make it sound plastic? The thing is, Tom's problem isn't staying in tune, it's his style of singing backing vocals. His vocals would maybe sound better if they were a lot more quieter. Anyone who listens a lot of music or knows anything about it can't stand auto-tuned vocals.

Sum's album Underclass Hero has different kind of backing vocals than their any other album. Lets hear Count Your Blessings with auto-tuned harmonies. Mostly the middle-eight section of the song sounds the most horrible. Also the chorus just before middle eight sounds really awful too. The question is, why he used auto-tune? Didn't he have enough time to learn all the vocals properly or can't he just sing really high like he have to do in Walking Disaster for example. (WD sounds pretty horrible too)

When they played Underclass Hero album live he also yelled the same way he does in now days. The thing is that backing vocals in UH are way more different compared to any of their other albums. There isn't that much shouting.

"Bring on the panic,
The uncontrolled and manic" Does auto-tuned yelling sound good? Hell no.

In King of Contradiction Tom's vocals sounds actually OK. Mostly cause of Deryck uses effect in his voice that "hides" Tom's auto-tune and vocals are not as loud as they usually are. Still, listen end of the first chorus

"Race"
So Lars, could you explain me why Tom (who stays in tune) would sound better with auto-tune?

samueeL wrote:People who can't sing use auto-tune live. Tom obviously can sing. He hits notes, so why use auto-tune? To make it sound plastic? The thing is, Tom's problem isn't staying in tune, it's his style of singing backing vocals. His vocals would maybe sound better if they were a lot more quieter

Well, this was exactly my point.

Make him sound louder live, so he doesn't need to shout.

I agree with you that he really can sing, definetely. But that's just the thing. He's mic isn't this loud, so he has to shout. And that's why he can't perform the backings properly, which is a pity.

(by the way: all of the stuff they played live on their site from the UH-album kinda sounded plastic imo)

But here's the deal: Tom definetely is a great singer, but just because of the fact his mic isn't tuned up, it doesn't sound the right way. And in my own, personal opinion, the auto-tune didn't sound that bad. But it's just a "solution". Turn up his mic, and it would be awesome for me/

But hey, like I said before, that's just my opinion.
Just because we love Sum 41, doens't mean there aren't people who hate them.
That's just about having an opinion.

And even if their opinion is different than mine, that still doesn't mean I don't respect theirs.

samueeL wrote:"Bring on the panic,
The uncontrolled and manic"

Does auto-tuned yelling sound good? Hell no.

Yeah, I definitely cringed in 2007 when I first heard Tom sing "Bring on the panic," and I still cringe now.

Tom is the lead singer for Gob, so surely he shouldn't have trouble staying in tune. He's just not used to singing backing vocals, especially the ones for Underclass Hero, which are different like Samuel said.

They're tuned to D# when they play live, right? So they don't have to sing as high as they do on the songs that are originally in standard tuning, correct? Though, that's probably something the band knows already.

Fuck, get off my cock. I said i don't even mind the way it is right now. I only agreed to the fact that if there on television, or a very important event, he might need it.

I agree with samueeL all the way.

Wow, I can barely stand hearing that mess again. I remember sitting through it and the second it was over, I wanted to forget that ever happened. The whole UH release performance was so embarrassing to watch if you knew a little more about producing music (I realize now, it could have actually been the reason why felt like the album was a let-down at first).
The drums sounded too dry since they were done using triggers which means, cymbals can't be turned up as much as usually because the true drum sound would shine through too much and lead to a weird echo-ish sound. Guitars were cut together afterwards or may be even recorded separately because you can tell they did multiple takes since it never really feels like you get what you see. Often you hear Steve play something different than what the camera shows or you can hear the rhythm guitar although Deryck is doing a slide and Tom is playing a riff. Even Deryck's vocals sound flat and dull like they were done by some idiot who can't really sing and therefore had to use a quick auto-tune to make it sound like anything with the music. We all know that isn't true because Deryck has shown countless times what an amazing singer he is in so many ways, but that "performance" left exactly the opposite impression. I wonder who was responsible for that.

I listened to The Orange Lounge show again and the vocals are indeed tuning corrected in some songs, but much less noticeable, similar to the way it's done at regular studio recordings (only in the right sitiuations, clean notes, no shouting - although I still think that's unnecessary). I also doubt that was done in real-time but afterwards by the engineer who edited and mixed those performances. So no real auto-tune there.

Lars wrote:Make him sound louder live, so he doesn't need to shout.

It isn't that simple. He does already have in-ear monitoring like Deryck, so he can hear himself clearly. Also, vocals are usually compressed to have roughtly the same loudness. That means he does not have to shout to be heard. Turning up his mic would not change the way he sings but only make him louder to the listeners. So if anything, his level should be lowered to put him more in the background.

Bottom line: Tom does not have a suitable voice for the high-pitched backing vocals (especially on In Too Deep) at least not in an on-stage liveshow situation (which is totally different to when you're in a studio). They definately should work out something different for the benefit of those songs. Even Dave, who was unbelievably talented in high-pitched singing (finale of Pain For Pleasure was the best example) chose not to do them like that most of the time, for probably exactly those reasons.

Edit:

Jake-41 wrote:Then what is? All I'm saying is i want to hear people say "Sum 41 are good live."

And if Tom is a problem, then fix it. I see no problem in that.

EDIT: And if auto-tune is not the answer, then there is none. And if you don't like it, stop complaining about Tom's voice.

Jake-41 wrote:Fuck, get off my cock. I said i don't even mind the way it is right now. I only agreed to the fact that if there on television, or a very important event, he might need it.

I think that's exactly what's bothering him, at least it bothers me that you care that much about what other people think of them, that you agree they should use auto-tune for the sake of popularity which pretty much ruins the whole experience for people like samueeL and me. If you don't mind the way it is now, that's totally fine and I don't think less of you for that. But why give that up only to impress some random TV audience who probably doesn't even appreciate their music half as much as us longtime fans?

As said before: There is always a better solution than auto-tuning (even if it's dropping some backing vocals completely).
To me, Sum 41 has always been the absolutely honest and fun in-your-face rock and auto-tune just does not fit in there (may be as a joke, but not like this).

I can follow you on that one, especially because you know a whole bunch of shit about this.
(shit was used in a good way btw)

But just like you said, they really need to figure something out, because it's kinda 'ruining' the songs.
Not completely, but it's giving them an other dimension, which it shouldn't have.

Alright, what about Fat Lip live? I think that way they're doing it is pretty good. Like from the punkspring performance.

And Simon, that was some great shit to read. :D

Thanks. Quite a shitload to read actually, I just noticed lol.

I don't even know THAT much about it, although I did study audio engineering for a while. I just have very good ears and listen and think .. a lot, may be too much sometimes :D

Much like Hell Song, Fat Lip is pretty much always great. Works really well live with Cone, he has such a cool voice. Just watched the Duisburg performance again and also loved the fake/manual delay that Stevo did instead of the actual effect that never really has the correct timing and confuses everybody haha. Actually made me laugh the first time I heard it.

I think I will prepare some questions on the backing vocals topic for the chat with Deryck this Saturday, because I really think he just doesn't notice it that much because he is busy with his own performance and may be he doesn't even watch their performances afterwards. We know he is not a big internet/media person after all.

I think Toms voive is fine he is the lead singer of GOB so he can obviously sing

as for backing vocals i dont find them "horrible" they are ok

Studio backing vocals and live backing vocals are going to sound different

just because Tom cant hit high notes live to your satisfaction doesnt mean he cant sing

id prefer Tom to sing live naturaly instead of using this auto-tune if it is going to make him sound fake that just aint right so what if its a big performance on tv or that its better to sing something naturaly than have it botched and not all you

he can sing bit not in sum