Sum 41 / SBM discussion

[kILLDR3n]

THe only LP vibe was TNS with its similarity to Numb by LP. Numb doesn't reflect LP as a whole nor does it sound like much of their music anyway. Also none of Sum 41's music ever had a Green Day vibe to it. Although SBM was more dynamic which gave me A Black Parade feel from MCR, but only purely on song structure.

[Tyler.]

Also none of Sum 41's music ever had a Green Day vibe to it. .

[Resident Skumfuk]

2:53 - 3:04 definitely reminds me of LP, ugh

[Tyler.]

The intro as well. I like the LP'ish Chuck songs the best.

[Gregorovich]

Honestly, people always make these links between Sum 41 and LP/GD, and I just don't see it. While I do love those bands, they have a totally different vibe from the Sums. While most Green Day stuff sounds light-hearted, simple and rhythmic, Linkin Park generally sounds gritty, complex and electronic. The Sums have always had a 'classic rock and roll' vibe about them. MCR are the only band I have ever thought about while listening to Sum 41.

If you can't hear the LP vibe/similarities in Chuck and the GD vibe/similarities in UH then you "know nothing about music" haha.

SBM has less of it but still a tiny bit.

Honestly I can't see where you're getting this from. LP has a very industrious, electronic nu metal vibe, while Sum 41 is PURE Rock. There's No Solution is the only song which bears a slight resemblance - but even that is at a push. I mean, are you honestly saying that the likes of No Reason or We're All to Blame bear any resemblance at all to Points of Authority or Faint? Listen to these again and tell me you can hear a resemblance.

Also, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that there are no GD similarities whatsoever in UH. Name me a song from UH that sounds anything like Green Day. Go on. There are none.

[Jeremy Kill]

Musically, Sum 41 have never really sounded like Green Day to me (for the most part), but I can't deny that there's so many elements of Underclass Hero that were probably influenced by American Idiot. All the lyrics about "empty streets" and religious jargon... The bridge verse of Holiday vs. the ending verse of March of the Dogs... The melody of the King of Contradiction chorus sounds quite Green Day-esque. Not to mention "time passes by, direction unknown" is uncanny to "time grabs you by the wrist, directs you where to go" lines that are both from acoustic guitar songs with strings that also utilize the same chords.

[Tyler.]

Lol did I ever say every single song sounds like LP or GD? No. So you can't just name random LP and Sum 41 songs and say they don't sound like each other

The guitar in March and Confusion Frustration are very like Green Day, and a bit of Pull The Curtain.

I never once said they songs sound exactly the same or are copied. They just have similar musical parts that are only really seen otherwise in LP or GD.

I even recall many people mentioning that Deryck said he had been listening to American Idiot during the UH recording process, so I'm not surprised there are some GD inspired guitar parts.

If you can't see these similarities you probably either don't play the guitar or don't listen specifically to instruments while listening to songs and just enjoy the music as a whole. I can't really do that myself, I end up listening to each instrument individually after I've listened to the song heaps and learning it and realizing it's similar to other bands.

[Jeremy Kill]

I even recall many people mentioning that Deryck said he had been listening to American Idiot during the UH recording process, so I'm not surprised there are some GD inspired guitar parts.

Yeah, Tomi mentioned that I think.

[Gregorovich]

Lol did I ever say every single song sounds like LP or GD? No. So you can't just name random LP and Sum 41 songs and say they don't sound like each.

The guitar in March and Confusion Frustration are very like Green Day, and a bit of Pull The Curtain.

I never once said they songs sound exactly the same or are copied. They just have similar musical parts that are only really seen otherwise in LP or GD.

I even recall many people mentioning that Deryck said he had been listening to American Idiot during the UH recording process, so I'm not surprised there are some GD inspired guitar parts.

There is a difference between another artist influencing an album, and the album sounding like another artist. While I can't deny that American Idiot obviously influenced the themes of UH, it has a completely different vibe. Green Day music has always been 1. Simple 2. Poppy 3. Cynical (eg. they write songs to complain about something specific). Sum 41 on the other hand (especially on the last 3 albums) have shown that they are 1. Complex 2. Dark/Punky 3. Ambiguous (While all lyrical content has roots, it's not clear cut or simple). Even if a riff or two bears a slight resemblance to another, it doesn't mean that the songs have a similar vibe. For example, would you say that, because the melody of the chorus is similar, March of the Dogs has an MCR vibe? If they had never released House of Wolves you wouldn't think that. The rest of the song is completely different - while MCR's song gives off a twisted, humorous and masochistic vibe (not to mention the classical rock influences in there), The Jester is strictly gritty, political, fast-paced and poppy.

However, the most obvious thing which sets Sum 41 apart from both GD & LP is their Metal influences. Even though their music isn't strictly metal, you can hear bands like Iron Maiden creeping through - even on an album like AKNF or UH. GD & LP have very different influences (GD being influenced by 80s punk bands, and LP taking influence from rappers, rockers and hip hoppers).

[Jeremy Kill]

One thing I always appreciated about Sum 41 was their love for metal. It's kind of what gave them edge over Blink-182 and Green Day (bands that they were compared to when they first broke out and even to this day) back in the day. These days though, all those bands have kind of diversified their sound to the point where you couldn't really put their latest works down and say they would be in the same league.

[Tyler.]

Even if a riff or two bears a slight resemblance to another, it doesn't mean that the songs have a similar vibe

However, the most obvious thing which sets Sum 41 apart from both GD & LP is their Metal influences. Even though their music isn't strictly metal, you can hear bands like Iron Maiden creeping through - even on an album like AKNF or UH. GD & LP have very different influences (GD being influenced by 80s punk bands, and LP taking influence from rappers, rockers and hip hoppers).

Well that's a kind of silly thing to say. Any rock/punk/metal/alt song you listen to, guitar is like 50% of what makes the feel and vibe of a song. Of course something will have a similar vibe if a riff or guitar part is resembling another song. Yes the vocals/bass/drums whatever can change the vibe, but from listening to some UH songs a lot, they have very similar vibes because of the guitar parts mainly, and the rest of the song doesn't take it to a separate level.

And yeah they also have that metal influence, mainly in chuck and some random interludes in other songs. I don't like that part of Sum 41 as much but it definitely adds something for people that prefer the heavier music.

[Gregorovich]

Of course something will have a similar vibe if a riff or guitar part is resembling another song. Yes the vocals/bass/drums whatever can change the vibe, but from listening to some UH songs a lot, they have very similar vibes because of the guitar parts mainly, and the rest of the song doesn't take it to a separate level.

I could not disagree more with this. A single riff or solo cannot significantly change the vibe of the song - it is primarily the SOUND of the guitar, along with the vocals. i've just been listening to GOB, for example, and Tom's vocals are much more impacting on the song that any of the guitar work. The same thing carries over to Sum 41 - the vocals and general sound are much more influential on a song's appearance than specific melodies.

[Tyler.]

Of course something will have a similar vibe if a riff or guitar part is resembling another song. Yes the vocals/bass/drums whatever can change the vibe, but from listening to some UH songs a lot, they have very similar vibes because of the guitar parts mainly, and the rest of the song doesn't take it to a separate level.

I could not disagree more with this. A single riff or solo cannot significantly change the vibe of the song

You're silly

The whole point of riff's is to make a song. To show you what the fuck it's about, to show you the mood, to show you what lies in the rest of the song.

[Gregorovich]

Of course something will have a similar vibe if a riff or guitar part is resembling another song. Yes the vocals/bass/drums whatever can change the vibe, but from listening to some UH songs a lot, they have very similar vibes because of the guitar parts mainly, and the rest of the song doesn't take it to a separate level.

I could not disagree more with this. A single riff or solo cannot significantly change the vibe of the song

You're silly

I'm telling you, it's the SOUND of the vocals and the guitar, not the melodies themselves. Honestly, would you really think The Jester had an MCR vibe if House of Wolves was never released? The SOUND is completely different, never mind one single melody during part of the chorus.

[Resident Skumfuk]

Of course something will have a similar vibe if a riff or guitar part is resembling another song. Yes the vocals/bass/drums whatever can change the vibe, but from listening to some UH songs a lot, they have very similar vibes because of the guitar parts mainly, and the rest of the song doesn't take it to a separate level.

I could not disagree more with this. A single riff or solo cannot significantly change the vibe of the song

You're silly

I'm telling you, it's the SOUND of the vocals and the guitar, not the melodies themselves. Honestly, would you really think The Jester had an MCR vibe if House of Wolves was never released? The SOUND is completely different, never mind one single melody during part of the chorus.

I believe its both the mood/sound and the melody, agreed? yes.

[Tyler.]

Of course something will have a similar vibe if a riff or guitar part is resembling another song. Yes the vocals/bass/drums whatever can change the vibe, but from listening to some UH songs a lot, they have very similar vibes because of the guitar parts mainly, and the rest of the song doesn't take it to a separate level.

I could not disagree more with this. A single riff or solo cannot significantly change the vibe of the song

You're silly

I'm telling you, it's the SOUND of the vocals and the guitar, not the melodies themselves. Honestly, would you really think The Jester had an MCR vibe if House of Wolves was never released? The SOUND is completely different, never mind one single melody during part of the chorus.

No I wouldn't, because the only thing similar in those songs is the vocal melody in one part. They don't have similar guitar parts at all, unlike GD and UH songs.

[Tyler.]

The whole fuckin intro of March of the Dogs is Green Day. If you can't hear it you aren't listening properly lol

[Gregorovich]

The whole fuckin intro of March of the Dogs is Green Day. If you can't hear it you aren't listening properly lol

How? HOW? It's too too rapid & heavy for Green Day!

[Gregorovich]

Also, the closest similarity I can find to March of the Dogs is Letterbomb - but even Letterbomb has a totally different guitar sound, and the vocals sound completely different. I still firmly believe that the feel of the vocals is the real difference between these bands. Billie Joe's voice is distinctive and the distortion on it sounds like it's being broadcast over the radio or television - which suits the song. The distortion on Deryck's voice in UH/SBM makes it sound like he's using a megaphone (which suits his style of music).

[Gregorovich]

In other news... (Sorry for triple post here)

Apparently Deryck plans to play this in acoustic too in the future - looks like we might get JK live in some form!